BTW. Every elements in the mix is sidechain ducked by Kick & Snare.
So no overlaps.
Yes! They Ducked before Pi.
Yes! I freeze audio then bypass sends so PI doesn’t have “Sync Error”
Sometimes i hear my kick and snare are changed by PI.
I don’t want that.
What should i do? Ho to set my PI instances on kick and snare?
I write on GS forum - no reply from SR.
So i hope here i will recieve the answer. Thanks.
Plus, i don’t understand WHY?
Why my Kick & Snare (Weight set to max) are changing by PI.
They duck EVERYTHING in the mix with fine-tuned volume envelope side-chaining.
If you don’t want the Kick and Snare to be phase-optimized, you can bind them together in a group and set the group mode to OFF. There is no benefit in grouping single tracks. Furthermore, there’s no need to group tracks unless there are special conditions, such as keeping multi-mic recordings internally correlated, so the individual mics won’t phase-rotate separately.
The reason the kick and snare are ‘ducking’ everything in your mix is that their Weight is set to maximum.
An analogy I like you use is a planetary system, where tracks are planets with different masses. The more mass they have, the stronger the gravitational pull they will have on other planets. And you can increase tracks’ ‘mass’ using Weight control.
I hope this helps. Lets us know if you have any more questions.
Thanks for reply.
“There is no benefit in grouping single tracks” - i already find out this yesterday by many ABX type blind tests.
“the kick and snare are ‘ducking’ everything”. No. You got me wrong. I side-chain all my tracks in my Reaper DAW with volume envelope. So all music tracks are ducked by this envelope, not with PI. Envelope are tweaked manually so this SC ducking are inaudible. Smooth, clean, pristine (chose the right word) AF.
Nothing happens in the same time with transient part of kick and snare.
I clearly understand how Weight knob works.
I will try that “off-advice” and check how it sounds.
But i don’t understand why PI try to change my kick+snare.
As i say before - nothing happends in the same time moment when they hit.
I hear how sometimes snare transient part is smearing, and kick is woobling (by pitch).
This is random behaviour. I can’t predict that.
All previous plugins in session are printed to audio (freezed)
I set PI as my one and same time last FX in the chain (bypass all SC sends in Reaper mixer so i don’t have Sync Error)
Than i real-time freeze tracks or print in real-time.
I mix hybrid, so after PI my mixer tracks are routed to DAC individual outs and plug to my analog console. Summed on console mixbus and route to ADC input.
Yes! I undertand - analog after PI! Please don’t start this:) I know.
A lot of my blind ABX comparisons are proving that this workflow are legit.
Without PI mix sounds worse.
So pre-console tracks are phase optimized then summed in mixer. Still dramatic (good) changes thanks to PI.
Bottom line: why PI are buggin’ on my kicks & snares when nothing to be “PI-ed” in “the hard hit moments”? I have any thoughts on this.
If for example i set (as you say) all my tracks to group 1 (Int & Mix) and Kick+Snare to group 2 (Off), Weight “sended from kick & snare” will still dominate on group 1 instruments?
I mix hybrid, so after PI my mixer tracks are routed to DAC individual outs and plug to my analog console. Summed on console mixbus and route to ADC input.
Yes! I undertand - analog after PI! Please don’t start this:) I know.
Nothing wrong with that. For best results, try to match the levels Pi sees and the console levels.
A lot of my blind ABX comparisons are proving that this workflow are legit.
Without PI mix sounds worse.
Nice.
There’s no benefit from setting manually longer latency to detect and rotate phase in PI?
No. It’s there to give the DAW and Pi enough time to receive the samples from all the tracks for the same processing window.
It’s been a long time since i watch this. “OFF” kick & snare drum works fine. Thanks.
But i notice there’s a small but audible transient losses when i PI my kick & snare.
It would be great if PI in OFF mode will be 1:1 bit transparent to input before plugin insert.
Maybe 64 bit FP double precision engine will work better?
Best sounding plugins now all use double precision calculations.
Think about that, my friend.
And i have another question. More like i need your suggestion.
My kick and snare are group 2, W 1000, mode - OFF
All my tracks (including PRINTED aux returns) are group 1, W 100 , mode Internal & Mix.
How can i set my cymbal and hi-hats track + their PRL bus ( Compressed and a bit of PRL eq, PRINTED too. No sends are active in the session. No SYNC Errors.)
I call it “Shine bus”.
I want:
KICK & SNR are humiliate all in the mix (OFF mode and extra SC ducking with volume envelope to carve space for themselves in the mix)
CYM & HAT tracks obey to KICK & SNR but “press” that “Shine Bus” and affect all other tracks in the mix.
It’s hard to understand and set-up without issues.
If i leave CYM+HAT+SHINE BUS in Group 1 (as all tracks) they start to act weird.
They start fight with SHINE BUS and “metal percussion” (cymbals and hats) start to swallow themselves randomly in the song.
Only one workaround i find is set CYM and HAT PI instances W 100 (minimum)
And set SHINE BUS to W1000.
But i didn’t want that SHINE bus affect all my other tracks that hard.
How can i organize it better. Nobody knows better than you, Nir.
Should i set my CYM+HAT tracks to PI OFF too?
But i need them to obey Kicks and Snare.
By ‘All’ do you mean all drums or all the tracks in the mix?
I’m not sure I’m absolutely clear on your needs but would love to setup and call with you to hear more about it. Just hail us at support and we’ll arrange it.
